I just came across some new information on Phineas Gage. It looks like according to neuroscientist, Dean Burnett most of the extreme claims of Phineas Gage personality changes were made after his death. So their was no way for Phineas Gage to refute them. There is no doubt of course that his personality was affected. It the degree of which it was that is in question. So your saying so what?. There are thousands of other cases of personality change. Well the cases are also probably not as dramatic as many neuroscientist's let on they are, especially knowing the fact that these other cases are similar to the Phineas Gage case. Neuroscientist Dean Burnett is no dualist neither is he a materialist as far as I know. His book however was reviewed by csicop which is a skeptical organization and they gave his book praise. Even if he is a materialist that doesn't mean he cannot be honest. He is brave enough to admit that's what materialist's often claim that personality couldn't survive death because of dramatic personality change, well when a neuroscientist comes out and admits that their is indeed personality change but not the degree that materialist's pertain it to be. Many of these materialist's are neuroscientist's themselves but when he admits that other neuroscientist's can overstate cases, it's important to get this out there. I should also point out, there are also neuroscientist's, who are dualist's as well along with belonging to other views too. It should be noted however that a dramatic effect on his personality did happen but not to the extreme level that many materialist's who were trying to fit the data in with the view that personality itself is caused by the frontal lobe. The point is yes there is a strong correlation with the frontal lobe of the brain and personality and other brain structures have strong correlations with other mental functions. But that doesn't not equal the type of casuality that materialist's pertain that mind is what the brain does. This case is considered to be a dramatic example of mind-brain dependency. However, as I have clearly shown here it is not.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=-Nr_CwAAQBAJ&pg=PT134&lpg=PT134&dq=The+Idiot+Brain:+A+Neuroscientist+Explains+What+Your+Head+Is+Really+Up+To+phineas+gage&source=bl&ots=BQ_B3s8F-L&sig=Ru5uz2g56qCoAGiqFUjPSINAqlw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzw73anZbNAhVIw4MKHfwVBdYQ6AEILzAD#v=onepage&q=The%20Idiot%20Brain%3A%20A%20Neuroscientist%20Explains%20What%20Your%20Head%20Is%20Really%20Up%20To%20phineas%20gage&f=false
The Strange case of Phineas Gage
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/27225153_The_Strange_Case_of_Phineas_Gage
Showing posts with label Phineas Gage. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Phineas Gage. Show all posts
Tuesday, June 7, 2016
Wednesday, March 28, 2012
More on the Phineas Gage Case
There is a nice writeup about this case showing that the case doesn't deliver any evidence to demonstrate the view that personality has dependence on the brain.
Here a couple of quoted material from it
1850, two years after the accident, a Harvard professor of surgery stated that he was "completely recovered in body and mind", making no mention of any personality change.
In subsequent accounts by other writers Harlow's later testimony was embellished. Gage was now said to have become a drunkard and a boastful exhibitionist, as well as suffering an absolute lack of foresight - all unmentioned by Harlow. In fact most of what has been said about Gage subsequent to his physical recovery, Macmillan says bluntly, is "fable".
As we see then the case that many materialists use to bolster their case up is a mere fabrication. Sure there was some impact on his personality but not to the point where materialists proclaim it is.
You can read the rest of it here
http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormalia/2011/09/the-man-with-the-hole-in-his-head.html
Here a couple of quoted material from it
1850, two years after the accident, a Harvard professor of surgery stated that he was "completely recovered in body and mind", making no mention of any personality change.
In subsequent accounts by other writers Harlow's later testimony was embellished. Gage was now said to have become a drunkard and a boastful exhibitionist, as well as suffering an absolute lack of foresight - all unmentioned by Harlow. In fact most of what has been said about Gage subsequent to his physical recovery, Macmillan says bluntly, is "fable".
As we see then the case that many materialists use to bolster their case up is a mere fabrication. Sure there was some impact on his personality but not to the point where materialists proclaim it is.
You can read the rest of it here
http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormalia/2011/09/the-man-with-the-hole-in-his-head.html
Saturday, September 19, 2009
My Response To The Shameless Atheist
Here are my responses of a debate i had with the blogger you owns this blog. To see his responses go to his blog
http://shamelesslyatheist.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/dualism-why-do-people-cling-to-such-archaic-nonsense/
Rather you like it or not their is strong evidence that nde’s are evidence for an afterlife. Let me explain why, yes their is deep level brain activity in deep levels of the brain. However, EEG can read the cortex of the brain and when flat lined people still have nde’s and obe’s. The flat line EEG indicates their is very little brain activity left in the cortex when blood flow is cut to the brain when someone goes into cardiac arrest. Jason Braithwaite said that those deep lower processes of the brain is more than sufficent to account for near death experiences. However it order for his theory to work. Their would have to be evidence that stimulating those processes of the brain when someone is flat lined can bring about complex though processes etc that are reported in nde’s.
I quote
“By late 2008 an advertisement for a previously unknown public appearance by Gage had been discovered, as well as a report of his physical and mental condition during his time in Chile, and a description of what may well have been his daily work routine there as a long-distance coach driver. This new information suggests that the seriously maladapted Gage described by Harlow may have existed for only a limited time after the accident—that Phineas eventually “figured out how to live” despite his injury,[40] and was in later life much more functional, and socially much better adapted, than has been thought”.[41]
So as we see that his personality back, however their is good reasons to doubt Harlows account.
I quote
“The uncertainty of Harlow’s sources for the changes he describes in Gage, combined with the fact that he waited almost twenty years (between his first and second papers) to communicate those changes, constitute one of the main puzzles of the case.”
So as we still it is looking more and more less likely that he suffered dramatic personality change to the point of showing evidence for full blown mind-brain dependency. This case is often cited by full blown support for very strong mind-brain dependency. But as i have shown it’s no where near supportive of it.
As far as free will goes ok go away deny the all so obvious. How do you explain why a person’s arm goes up. Now you can say well that is the thing with the arm sometimes it goes up and sometimes it doesn’t. But the fact is it does.
The chinese room argument, put forth by philosopher John Searle, is a powerful argument that shows why computationalism is wrong. The many world’s interpretation if correct would show that quantum immortality is possible that when a person dies. Consciousness continues on to another parellel universe.
Hello Shamelessly Atheist,
The Phineas Gage case yes their was significant personality changes however that is not incompatiable with dualism. Based on the fact that the issue is the brain producing mind and consciousness like a productive function? or is the brain a receiver of the mind.?
As far as the split brain experiments go they no where near demonstrates their are two separate conscious selves.
http://www.geocities.com/athanasiafoundation/Dualismlives.htm
There are a lot of powerful arguments that the view that materialism is wrong .
http://www.geocities.com/athanasiafoundation/metasubjectivemind.html
Phineas Gage lost his personality permanently?. It looks that is not the case, because of the fact that he was more functional and social shortly after his accident.
“The strange case of Phineas Gage,” History of the Human Sciences
http://hhs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/20/1/115
After his death, Gage slowly morphed into the lecture room legend. According to Kotowicz,
” Most of the subsequent descriptions of Gage were based on hearsay. Some of them were quite florid; Gage was portrayed as having fits of temper when not getting his own way, as being disinclined to work, as having a reduced libido, as being an aimless drifter and so on. A typical description of him would say that before the accident Gage had been a diligent, reliable, polite and socially adept person: after his accident, he subsequently became uncaring, profane and socially inappropriate in his conduct”.
In neurophilosophy we learn this http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2006/12/04/the-incredible-case-of-phineas-gage/
The Documentary Evidence
Kotowicz begs to differ:
However, after examining closely the accounts of Phineas Gage as given by the doctors who knew him, Harlow and Bigelow, one must conclude that the supposed psychopathic traits are not evident.
The drastic discontinuity was not so much between Phineas Gage pre- and post-tamping rod but between Phineas Gage (1823-1860) and the lecture room legend.
What we can learn from contemporary accounts of Gage’s post-trauma life is this: For a while after the accident, he drifted, and even ended up briefly in P. T. Barnum’s freak show, exhibiting himself and the tamping rod. But he then settled down and worked a year and a half in a stable. Later, he went with a friend to Valparaiso in Chile where he cared for horses and drove a coach and six for eight years.
Kotowicz points out the obvious,
Working in stables is not a job for a psychopath. Horses are very sensitive and they require discipline and calm; they have to be attended to regularly, seven days a week, and work begins early.
Malcolm Macmillan of Deakin University School of Psychology in Victoria, Australia, where he maintains a Phineas Gage page. He writes:
Most of the accounts of Gage’s life after 1848 are strange mixtures of slight fact, considerable fancy, and downright fabrication.
Now contrasts all of the above information to this materialist account of Phineas Gage’s personality.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=_aG5U2ippNkC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=Phineas+Gage+Burlington+skull&source=bl&ots=ZeG5NyLLO8&sig=rF-6PMGWCgSl2xeyaPI4MpvxOT4&hl=en&ei=mdvJSY7cHtTvnQfGrJSNAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#v=onepage&q=Phineas%20Gage%20Burlington%20skull&f=false
As far as i know and yes i read lots of articles, and go to skeptical sites to, neuroscientists haven't been able to induce key aspects of obe's. Instead what the people who had a part of their brain electrically stimulated reported distortions of their body from above [such as their legs becoming shorter, and arms becoming shorter. If you compared nde cases brought on by cardiac arrest with induced ndes you see their are big differences. Yes in some cases that is possible that details can be added but not by patients who were interviewed shortly after being unconscious.
Also what is your opinion on Richard Wiseman's statement that ESP has been proven by the scientific method but requires a higher level of evidence. Denial there for sure, nowhere does he mentions what his higher level of evidence would be?. The scientific method is the best method we have at getting at the truth.
As far as the science of violation goes. The only thing that can be demonstrated by this type of evidence is that there is some brain mechanism involved to facilitate consciousness during our incarnated existence. This does not at all mean the contents of consciousness are themselves caused by the brain mechanism. In other words, the evidence can be perfectly interpreted in terms of the transmitter-receiver hypothesis.
Brain scanners can see your decisions before to make them
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/04/mind_decision
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/08/18/BANFRK1TG.DTL< [One of the main responses seems to me that there is an interaction of brain and mind, so that the role of the brain does not exclude a separate role of the mind[.
Here is a good paper by Titus Rivas and Hein Van Dongen showing why epiphenomenalism is untenable.
http://www.geocities.com/athanasiafoundation/epiphenomenalism.html
Also, other cases of brain damage to the frontal lobes of the brain are similiar to the case of Phineas Gage above. Their is no doubt that his personality was probably changed a lot however not so dramatically changed that it is evidence that the mind and brain are so linked that their is no way that personality could survive death.
http://shamelesslyatheist.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/dualism-why-do-people-cling-to-such-archaic-nonsense/
Rather you like it or not their is strong evidence that nde’s are evidence for an afterlife. Let me explain why, yes their is deep level brain activity in deep levels of the brain. However, EEG can read the cortex of the brain and when flat lined people still have nde’s and obe’s. The flat line EEG indicates their is very little brain activity left in the cortex when blood flow is cut to the brain when someone goes into cardiac arrest. Jason Braithwaite said that those deep lower processes of the brain is more than sufficent to account for near death experiences. However it order for his theory to work. Their would have to be evidence that stimulating those processes of the brain when someone is flat lined can bring about complex though processes etc that are reported in nde’s.
I quote
“By late 2008 an advertisement for a previously unknown public appearance by Gage had been discovered, as well as a report of his physical and mental condition during his time in Chile, and a description of what may well have been his daily work routine there as a long-distance coach driver. This new information suggests that the seriously maladapted Gage described by Harlow may have existed for only a limited time after the accident—that Phineas eventually “figured out how to live” despite his injury,[40] and was in later life much more functional, and socially much better adapted, than has been thought”.[41]
So as we see that his personality back, however their is good reasons to doubt Harlows account.
I quote
“The uncertainty of Harlow’s sources for the changes he describes in Gage, combined with the fact that he waited almost twenty years (between his first and second papers) to communicate those changes, constitute one of the main puzzles of the case.”
So as we still it is looking more and more less likely that he suffered dramatic personality change to the point of showing evidence for full blown mind-brain dependency. This case is often cited by full blown support for very strong mind-brain dependency. But as i have shown it’s no where near supportive of it.
As far as free will goes ok go away deny the all so obvious. How do you explain why a person’s arm goes up. Now you can say well that is the thing with the arm sometimes it goes up and sometimes it doesn’t. But the fact is it does.
The chinese room argument, put forth by philosopher John Searle, is a powerful argument that shows why computationalism is wrong. The many world’s interpretation if correct would show that quantum immortality is possible that when a person dies. Consciousness continues on to another parellel universe.
Hello Shamelessly Atheist,
The Phineas Gage case yes their was significant personality changes however that is not incompatiable with dualism. Based on the fact that the issue is the brain producing mind and consciousness like a productive function? or is the brain a receiver of the mind.?
As far as the split brain experiments go they no where near demonstrates their are two separate conscious selves.
http://www.geocities.com/athanasiafoundation/Dualismlives.htm
There are a lot of powerful arguments that the view that materialism is wrong .
http://www.geocities.com/athanasiafoundation/metasubjectivemind.html
Phineas Gage lost his personality permanently?. It looks that is not the case, because of the fact that he was more functional and social shortly after his accident.
“The strange case of Phineas Gage,” History of the Human Sciences
http://hhs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/20/1/115
After his death, Gage slowly morphed into the lecture room legend. According to Kotowicz,
” Most of the subsequent descriptions of Gage were based on hearsay. Some of them were quite florid; Gage was portrayed as having fits of temper when not getting his own way, as being disinclined to work, as having a reduced libido, as being an aimless drifter and so on. A typical description of him would say that before the accident Gage had been a diligent, reliable, polite and socially adept person: after his accident, he subsequently became uncaring, profane and socially inappropriate in his conduct”.
In neurophilosophy we learn this http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2006/12/04/the-incredible-case-of-phineas-gage/
The Documentary Evidence
Kotowicz begs to differ:
However, after examining closely the accounts of Phineas Gage as given by the doctors who knew him, Harlow and Bigelow, one must conclude that the supposed psychopathic traits are not evident.
The drastic discontinuity was not so much between Phineas Gage pre- and post-tamping rod but between Phineas Gage (1823-1860) and the lecture room legend.
What we can learn from contemporary accounts of Gage’s post-trauma life is this: For a while after the accident, he drifted, and even ended up briefly in P. T. Barnum’s freak show, exhibiting himself and the tamping rod. But he then settled down and worked a year and a half in a stable. Later, he went with a friend to Valparaiso in Chile where he cared for horses and drove a coach and six for eight years.
Kotowicz points out the obvious,
Working in stables is not a job for a psychopath. Horses are very sensitive and they require discipline and calm; they have to be attended to regularly, seven days a week, and work begins early.
Malcolm Macmillan of Deakin University School of Psychology in Victoria, Australia, where he maintains a Phineas Gage page. He writes:
Most of the accounts of Gage’s life after 1848 are strange mixtures of slight fact, considerable fancy, and downright fabrication.
Now contrasts all of the above information to this materialist account of Phineas Gage’s personality.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=_aG5U2ippNkC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=Phineas+Gage+Burlington+skull&source=bl&ots=ZeG5NyLLO8&sig=rF-6PMGWCgSl2xeyaPI4MpvxOT4&hl=en&ei=mdvJSY7cHtTvnQfGrJSNAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#v=onepage&q=Phineas%20Gage%20Burlington%20skull&f=false
As far as i know and yes i read lots of articles, and go to skeptical sites to, neuroscientists haven't been able to induce key aspects of obe's. Instead what the people who had a part of their brain electrically stimulated reported distortions of their body from above [such as their legs becoming shorter, and arms becoming shorter. If you compared nde cases brought on by cardiac arrest with induced ndes you see their are big differences. Yes in some cases that is possible that details can be added but not by patients who were interviewed shortly after being unconscious.
Also what is your opinion on Richard Wiseman's statement that ESP has been proven by the scientific method but requires a higher level of evidence. Denial there for sure, nowhere does he mentions what his higher level of evidence would be?. The scientific method is the best method we have at getting at the truth.
As far as the science of violation goes. The only thing that can be demonstrated by this type of evidence is that there is some brain mechanism involved to facilitate consciousness during our incarnated existence. This does not at all mean the contents of consciousness are themselves caused by the brain mechanism. In other words, the evidence can be perfectly interpreted in terms of the transmitter-receiver hypothesis.
Brain scanners can see your decisions before to make them
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/04/mind_decision
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/08/18/BANFRK1TG.DTL< [One of the main responses seems to me that there is an interaction of brain and mind, so that the role of the brain does not exclude a separate role of the mind[.
Here is a good paper by Titus Rivas and Hein Van Dongen showing why epiphenomenalism is untenable.
http://www.geocities.com/athanasiafoundation/epiphenomenalism.html
Also, other cases of brain damage to the frontal lobes of the brain are similiar to the case of Phineas Gage above. Their is no doubt that his personality was probably changed a lot however not so dramatically changed that it is evidence that the mind and brain are so linked that their is no way that personality could survive death.
Wednesday, July 29, 2009
On Phineas Gage Case And Brain Localization Studies
Phineas Gage is written to have "dramatic brain damage which resulted in dramatic personality changes". Oh boy, but this where we run into some serious problems based on recent evidence that has been uncovered.
I quote
"By late 2008 an advertisement for a previously unknown public appearance by Gage had been discovered, as well as a report of his physical and mental condition during his time in Chile, and a description of what may well have been his daily work routine there as a long-distance coach driver. This new information suggests that the seriously maladapted Gage described by Harlow may have existed for only a limited time after the accident—that Phineas eventually "figured out how to live" despite his injury,[40] and was in later life much more functional, and socially much better adapted, than has been thought".[41]
So as we see that his personality back, however their is good reasons to doubt Harlows account.
I quote
"The uncertainty of Harlow's sources for the changes he describes in Gage, combined with the fact that he waited almost twenty years (between his first and second papers) to communicate those changes, constitute one of the main puzzles of the case."
So as we still it is looking more and more less likely that he suffered dramatic personality change to the point of showing evidence for full blown mind-brain dependency. This case is often cited by full blown support for very strong mind-brain dependency. But as i have shown it's no where near supportive of it.
Brain localizations studies all of them indicate the words "associated with". Of course no dualist denies that particular brain functions will be associated with different mental phenomena. Brain localizations studies, don't tell us one way or another if mind and consciousness are separate from the brain or produced by the brain.
A side note, wordy a member on infidels forum wondered what i mean by "Survivalism". Simple, survivalism refers to the belief in the survival of the conscious self after the death of the physical body. Survivalists attempt to prove survival with the methods of science, using as evidence such things as psychic phenomena, near death experiences, out-of-body experiences, electronic voice phenomena, mediumship, reincarnation research,and various forms of photography.Survivalism is by implication a form of philosophical dualism.
I quote
"By late 2008 an advertisement for a previously unknown public appearance by Gage had been discovered, as well as a report of his physical and mental condition during his time in Chile, and a description of what may well have been his daily work routine there as a long-distance coach driver. This new information suggests that the seriously maladapted Gage described by Harlow may have existed for only a limited time after the accident—that Phineas eventually "figured out how to live" despite his injury,[40] and was in later life much more functional, and socially much better adapted, than has been thought".[41]
So as we see that his personality back, however their is good reasons to doubt Harlows account.
I quote
"The uncertainty of Harlow's sources for the changes he describes in Gage, combined with the fact that he waited almost twenty years (between his first and second papers) to communicate those changes, constitute one of the main puzzles of the case."
So as we still it is looking more and more less likely that he suffered dramatic personality change to the point of showing evidence for full blown mind-brain dependency. This case is often cited by full blown support for very strong mind-brain dependency. But as i have shown it's no where near supportive of it.
Brain localizations studies all of them indicate the words "associated with". Of course no dualist denies that particular brain functions will be associated with different mental phenomena. Brain localizations studies, don't tell us one way or another if mind and consciousness are separate from the brain or produced by the brain.
A side note, wordy a member on infidels forum wondered what i mean by "Survivalism". Simple, survivalism refers to the belief in the survival of the conscious self after the death of the physical body. Survivalists attempt to prove survival with the methods of science, using as evidence such things as psychic phenomena, near death experiences, out-of-body experiences, electronic voice phenomena, mediumship, reincarnation research,and various forms of photography.Survivalism is by implication a form of philosophical dualism.
Wednesday, April 22, 2009
Can Dualism Account For Changes In Personality With Brain Damage?
I shall argue that it can. For example with the evidence for a soul, it is claimed by many materialists that Phineas Gage personality change was not just temporary but permanent. This however appears not to be so.
For example
Recently, an advertisement for a previously-unknown public appearance by Gage has been discovered, as have a report of his behavior during his time in Chile and a description of what may have been his daily work routine there as a long-distance coach driver. This new information suggests that the seriously maladapted Gage described by Harlow may have existed for only a limited number of years after the accident—that in later life Phineas may have been far more functional, and socially far better adapted, than has been thought. If this is so then (along with theoretical implications) it "would add to current evidence that rehabilitation can be effective even in difficult and long-standing cases," according to Macmillan.[36]
Now the materialists would say well that is just one case, what about other cases?. Those other cases that do show permanent change but perhaps instead of personality changed permanently maybe the personality is being constrained and restricted. With the overhype that Phineas Gage's personality change being permanent, it should make materialists not jump to an conclusion. if their are cases that may show that brain damage also results in permanent personality change.
Also their are accounts and physician Benjamin Rush an physician author of the first American treatise on mental illness. He observed that most mad people discover a less degree of reason in the last days or hours of their lives.
Here is a study involving this
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/79473/Alexandre-Jacques-Francois-Brierre-de-Boismont
Here's another link with more informaiton on the french studies
http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/nineteenth_century_french_studies/v033/33.1vatan.pdf
For example
Recently, an advertisement for a previously-unknown public appearance by Gage has been discovered, as have a report of his behavior during his time in Chile and a description of what may have been his daily work routine there as a long-distance coach driver. This new information suggests that the seriously maladapted Gage described by Harlow may have existed for only a limited number of years after the accident—that in later life Phineas may have been far more functional, and socially far better adapted, than has been thought. If this is so then (along with theoretical implications) it "would add to current evidence that rehabilitation can be effective even in difficult and long-standing cases," according to Macmillan.[36]
Now the materialists would say well that is just one case, what about other cases?. Those other cases that do show permanent change but perhaps instead of personality changed permanently maybe the personality is being constrained and restricted. With the overhype that Phineas Gage's personality change being permanent, it should make materialists not jump to an conclusion. if their are cases that may show that brain damage also results in permanent personality change.
Also their are accounts and physician Benjamin Rush an physician author of the first American treatise on mental illness. He observed that most mad people discover a less degree of reason in the last days or hours of their lives.
Here is a study involving this
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/79473/Alexandre-Jacques-Francois-Brierre-de-Boismont
Here's another link with more informaiton on the french studies
http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/nineteenth_century_french_studies/v033/33.1vatan.pdf
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