Tuesday, February 24, 2009

Pz Myers Supporters Hijack Afterlife Poll

An poll going on at dailygrail.com was recently forwarded by Pz Myers to his fellow commenters on his science blog. I made an response on Pz Myers blog.


I said,

I voted all of the above evidence. Hijacking a poll about rather their is evidence for an afterlife or not is typical of materialists.

One of the best evidences for evp an experiment that shows evp's are not stray radio signals.


As far as induced gi loc out of body experiences this has been refuted.

One of the earliest and most persistent of the physiological theories proposed for NDEs is that lowered levels of oxygen (hypoxia or anoxia), perhaps accompanied by increased levels of carbon dioxide (hypercarbia), have produced hallucinations.... One study frequently cited is that of Whinnery (1997), who compared NDEs to what he called the "dreamlets" occurring in brief periods of unconsciousness induced in fighter pilots by rapid acceleration in a centrifuge... He claimed that some features common to NDEs are also found in these hypoxic episodes, including tunnel vision, bright lights, brief fragmented visual images, a sense of floating, pleasurable sensations, and, rarely, a sense of leaving the body. The primary features of acceleration-induced hypoxia, however, are myoclonic convulsions (rhythmic jerking of the limbs), impaired memory for events just prior to the onset of unconsciousness, tingling in the extremities and around the mouth, confusion and disorientation upon awakening, and paralysis, symptoms that do not occur in association with NDEs. Moreover, contrary to NDEs, the visual images Whinnery reported frequently included living people, but never deceased people; and no life review or accurate out-of-body perceptions have been reported in acceleration-induced loss of consciousness.

For those who say their is no evidence for an afterlife you surely haven't done any research of your own. Have you?

User named knockgoats said this

Hijacking a poll about rather their is evidence for an afterlife or not is typical of materialists. - Leo MacDonald

Inability to put together a coherent sentence is typical of wooists.

So an personal attack is obviously this commenters resort to my factual remark.

I know like to rebut Pz Myers post on some of the evidence for an afterlife.

He says

I don't get the popularity of the NDE "evidence". I had a friend once who told me that he had the most awesome experience on 'shrooms — he'd melted into a purple puddle that soaked into the earth, and he had spiritual sex with tree roots. I'm pretty sure that didn't actually happen, and I wouldn't use it to argue that human beings were capable of phase changes into a fluid state or that intimate congress with plants was fun and rewarding, but people use the same logic all the time in arguing that while they were in a brain-damaged state, befuddled by anoxia, their perception of the hallucinatory state afterwards is evidence that there is a heaven.

Because a lot of people who have them are often flat lined with no measureable EEG. How funny come up with an apparent hallunication account then use that as an comparision. Lol has he ever look at these nde accounts? apparently not.

He says

I have no idea what "crisis apparitions" are. I don't care to know either.

By that sentence he clearly shows he ain't interested in this phenomena and doesn't care to look into it. Closed minded skeptic wouldn't you say?.

This is what he says about evp [electronic voice phenomena]

I have heard of EVPs — they're all the rage right now thanks to all those horrible 'ghosthunter' shows on TV. Leave a tape recorder running in an empty room, then play it back with lots of amplification of the background hiss and crackle of noise. If you are gullible and really want to believe, you will hear random splutters that you can imagine are sort of voices. And the really cool thing is that if you tell someone that this scrap of noise says something like, "Paul is dead", then their pattern-forming circuits in their brain will impose your interpretation on the noise for you, and they'll hear the same thing! Very convincing, I'm sure.

Has he ever heard of the Pye record experiments probably not.

He then says

I voted for no evidence. If you vote otherwise, maybe you can come back here and explain your evidence to us. We need a good laugh on a Saturday morning.

Yeah and i got a good laugh out of someone who proclaims to be a scientist with rationality and reason. But insists their is no evidence for an afterlife. Before you make that decision maybe you should research the evidence first, then come to an conclusion.

User named GT says

"Total votes: 666"
LOL, and "There is no evidence" is in the lead with 37% (246 votes).
Greed + Mortality = belief in eternal afterlife.

My response: Greed? if their is evidence for an afterlife which apparently their is lots of it it isn't greed.

Kel says

When one can simulate this phenomenon through mind-altering substances or though physical interaction (such as sleep deprivation), or when one can see these patterns through mental illness - why would anyone jump to the highly speculative and seemingly impossible conclusion that life carries on after death, but the dead are in contact with us?

My response: But mind altering substances don't even come close to that of an near death experience.

Stu says

Me:For those who say their is no evidence for an afterlife you surely haven't don't any research of your own.

Him?You don't know what research means.

My response: Well, Please inform me then what research is?



sbu said...

I think a good point suggesting the NDE's are just a hallucination is the fact the especially children tends to meet living rather than dead people in their experience. This could be because children have little concept of death - and hence their imagination can't make up a vision of deceased relatives.

Leo MacDonald said...


PMH Atwater in her book, "The Complete Idiots Guide To Near-Death Experiences", states that in those cases where children and people saw living friends and living relatives, it was merely as an introductory calming event to ease the transition of the person to the other side, and that after this initial calming phase ended, the "living person" disappeared, and did not reappear in the rest of the NDE event.

Also lots of cases of nde don't report seeing any living people. Only dead people.

sbu said...

it was merely as an introductory calming event to ease the transition of the person to the other side,

This doesn't sound very scientific does it? More like wishful thinking. Let's try to think objective here.

Leo MacDonald said...

Well it doesn't no, but it's just as speculative, as saying this is evidence of near death experiences- being an hallucination. The question is why did the living person disappear. If the child was hallucinating wouldn't we expect that living person to continue through the rest of the nde?.

sbu said...

If the child was hallucinating wouldn't we expect that living person to continue through the rest of the nde

No because that's the characteristic of a hallucination being incoherent.

Leo MacDonald said...

Ok but we should be looking all possible explanations for why children see living people.


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